On behalf of Sue and her dog Odie, I decided to try out the on-line vets at PetPlace.com to see if they could answer our questions about his elimination problems. PetPlace.com, as I told you a few posts ago, is an on-line destination with a free 15,000 pet-article library and also Dr. Jon’s free newsworthy newsletter.
It’s also, according to Inc magazine, one of the fastest growing companies in the country. If everything’s free, how can it be growing so fast? Part of the answer lies in its Pet Products Advisory service, which personally is not that meaningful to me. (I have other products and services I prefer.) Another part of the answer surely lies in its web-chat-with-vets service. For a fee, you can put a question to one of their vets standing by and get an answer within minutes. You can adjust the urgency of your request and also the level of detail you want in the answer and your price adjusts accordingly.
So, I decided our question was medium urgent (not low, not high) and I decided we wanted the highest level of detail. Our price was $48.
I got off to a rocky start with my assigned vet, Dr. Hinson. I thought she was altogether too brief and even a little snippy at the end. But that’s email for you. I was no star either.
My original question was:
My friends who own golden doodles and standard poodles feed their dogs premium kibble (like Orijen) but complain their dogs’ stool is frequently too loose. So, they’re tempted to return to Eukanuba adult maintenance kibble even tho it is less healthy. What do you suggest to firm up the stool while keeping the dogs on their premium kibble?
DR. HINSON :
Hi there. I’m Dr. Hinson and I’d like to help you with your question.
Dr. Hinson :
How long have they been eating the Orijen now?
Dr. Hinson :
The thing with Orijen and other premium brands is that they are very high in protein. It can take a while for the dog’s system to adjust to it.
Dr. Hinson :
In the meantime they can give the dog’s one tablespoon of canned organic pumpkin (pure pumpkin, not pie filling) twice a day. The extra fiber in the pumpkin should help to bulk up the dog’s stools.
Dr. Hinson :
I would not suggest going back to Eukanuba.
CUSTOMER (that’s me)
I’m sorry, Dr. Hinson, you didn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know.
Dr. Hinson :
You asked what you could do to firm up the stools. I told you to try pumpkin. If you have already tried that (which I don’t see mentioned in your post) then I can give you some other ideas.
Dr. Hinson :
You also didn’t answer my question as to how long the dogs have been on the Orijen now.
Well, that was Thursday and there was nothing further between us except notices for me to pay up. The way it works is that unless I click I ACCEPT the answer, the doc doesn’t get her cut. I didn’t feel I had gotten my $48 worth but I didn’t have the time to carry my end until today.
So today, Monday afternoon, I attempted to revive our chat. I wrote:
Dr. Hinson,
Please accept my apologies! And also my intention to pay the $48 without further delay. I did not mean to leave us hanging. I am not a deadbeat questioner! I jumped in last Thursday only to find out a little more about the service, but I was not prepared for the prompt reply. I should not have embarked on a Q&A with you when I had so little time.
So, if you don’t mind, let’s start again. The primary question concerns my friend’s 5-year-old goldendoodle Odie and what premium kibble he can eat without having loose and smelly stools.
BACKGROUND
His owner, Sue, has tried pumpkin but Odie doesn’t like it and won’t eat food with pumpkin in it. Recognizing the superior nutritional value of Orijen, she switched him to Orijen from Eukanuba Lamb & Rice several months ago. As a result of eating Orijen, his stool softened significantly — sometimes formed and other times unformed — and was quite stinky. (She was tempted to put him back on Eukanuba for its binding power, even though she knows the ingredients are pretty inferior.) My friend has not ruled out allergies (via elimination diets).
WHAT WE WANT TO KNOW
• What is it in Eukanuba that binds the stool?
• Why might Orijen exacerbate his problem?
• Are there other premium foods that are recommended for dogs with this issue?
• What others things, besides pumpkin, might be effective for binding?
• A dog nutritionist suggests that adding soluble fibers might hold an answer — how do you add soluble fiber?
• Finally, is this problem breed-specific? Though our sample is small, we find many other doodles with this issue.
This time, I was told I could choose another vet besides Dr. Hinson. I didn’t see why that was necessary, though. I was also told that if Dr. Hinson did not answer within 15 minutes, the question would be open to all the other vets standing by. And like clockwork, that is what happened. Except it was Dr. Hinson who answered the call!
3:38 pm DR. HINTON:
No worries!! I didn’t think you were a deadbeat questioner!! 
I am happy to answer your questions but I do have a couple more I’d like to ask you before I proceed.
So if I understand correctly, Odie has been on Orijen only for the past few months and he has intermittent soft, stinky stools on this diet. Is that right?
Now, does Odie eat other things than the Orijen like pig ears, treats, people food, etc?
Has Sue had his stool sample tested for parasites like giardia and coccidia?
Has Odie lost any weight throughout this ordeal?
Were his stools completely normal on the Eukanuba?
I look forward to your replies and then we’ll proceed! Thanks!
Dr. Hinson
4:01pm CUSTOMER (ME), after conferring with Sue
Let’s say on Orijen since October 2010 and, yes, always “intermittent soft, stinky” on this diet.
Some Mother Hubbard baked treats, some Real Meat treats, occasional people food (meat & veggies only)
Also, he gets half a can of Wellness Stew with his kibble. This was true when he was on Eukanuba and still true when he’s on Orijen.
Thoroughly tested for giardia and other parasites. Negative.
No weight loss
Stools perfectly normal on the Eukanuba.
Thanks!
5:01 From Dr. Hinson
• What is it in Eukanuba that binds the stool?
Eukanuba is higher in fiber than Orijen. Eukanuba has 5% and Orijen only 3%. It doesn’t seem like a big difference but for this particular dog it may.
• Why might Orijen exacerbate his problem?
The problem with the grain-free diets is that they are very high in protein and lower in fiber. Many animals (dogs and cats both) GI tracts can’t handle that high protein content.
• Are there other premium foods that are recommended for dogs with this issue?
I think she should just try another diet. She can continue to try grain-free but she can also just try an organic diet. Dogs are like people for example, you and I could both eat the same food but that food may not agree with me and you may be fine eating it. Sue just needs to find a diet that agrees with him. Why doesn’t she try the Wellness dry if she is feeding the canned already?
• What others things, besides pumpkin, might be effective for binding?
Anything with high fiber. Most people use canned pumpkin or psyllium (like metamucil). Metamucil comes in capsules so if she can get those down him she can try that. It can cause the opposite problem (constipation) if she gives too much. I would start with one capsule a day and see how he responds. Definitely don’t give more than 2 a day.
• A dog nutritionist suggests that adding soluble fibers might hold an answer — how do you add soluble fiber?
All diets need a combination of soluble and insoluble fiber. Neither type is absorbed by the body, they have different properties when mixed with water, hence the designation between the two.
Soluble fiber is “soluble” in water. When mixed with water it forms a gel-like substance and swells. This would be like Metamucil and pumpkin.
• Finally, is this problem breed-specific? Though our sample is small, we find many other doodles with this issue.
There is no way to know this for sure. All the dogs you know would have to have batteries of testing to find out exactly what the problem is. Are they missing an enzyme that helps to breakdown protein? Who knows?
Personally if this was my dog I would pick another dry diet and feed only that with no canned food, no treats, no people food, NOTHING else for at least 4 weeks. If the stools are normal at that time and the dog seems to be fine then I would start adding things back into the diet ONE AT A TIME to see if any of them trigger soft stools. Then go from there.
I don’t think this dog has any real “problem” per se. I just think the Orijen is too high in protein for him. I love that food and used to feed it to my dog until I got a second dog. The second dog had terrible gas but no diarrhea on it. So, we switched to Blue Buffalo and both dogs are fine.
Any other questions you can think of?
I’ll comment on my own blog! Actually, I have a follow-up question. If dogs are carnivores, then how can it upset their GI tract to eat too much protein?